Suzan-Lori Parks. (Photo by Tammy Shell)
Some playwrights are quiet, retiring introverts whose work expresses the issues they will’t say in on a regular basis dialog. Suzan-Lori Parks shouldn’t be a type of playwrights. Indeed, to talk to her, as I did not too long ago over Zoom, is to really feel such as you’re already in a play, and that the vitality that flows by her physique into her dialog and into her physique of labor—a nonetheless increasing universe that features dozens of scripts for stage and display—is a treasured useful resource produced by an eclectic, electrical thoughts and soul. Lest that sound like a pure course of that occurs with out her company or shaping intelligence, suffice it to say that Parks has crafted among the most clever and affecting stage works of the previous 30 years: from experimental tone poem (The America Play) to Brechtian allegory (Fucking A, now in a revival at Portland, Ore.’s Shaking the Tree Theatre) to masterful two-hander (Topdog/Underdog). She has additionally been uncannily productive, launching not solely the historic 365 Days/365 Plays mission however, to register the shock of the early Trump administration, 100 Plays for 100 Days.
Parks is about to channel her otherworldly vitality into a number of new vessels. Three are world premieres: At New York’s Public Theater, the place she’s the resident playwright, she’ll seem in Plays for the Plague Year, a theatrical live performance at Joe’s Pub (Nov. 4-27), and he or she’s adapting the 1972 reggae movie The Harder They Come with co-directors Tony Taccone and Sergio Trujillo (to open there in winter 2023). And at present working at Minneapolis’s Guthrie Theater is Sally & Tom, a brand new play a couple of theatre firm staging a controversial drama about Sally Hemings and Thomas Jefferson, which is more likely to seem on the Public as effectively (it’s billed as a co-production).
Meanwhile, opening on Oct. 20 on Broadway is a revival of Topdog/Underdog, starring Yahya Abdul-Mateen II and Corey Hawkins, and directed by Kenny Leon. Topdog, which received the 2002 Pulitzer Prize for Drama, stays her hottest and most ceaselessly produced work (it confirmed up on our lists in 2003), and handily qualifies as a contemporary basic. Still, as I came upon in our latest interview, it isn’t a play she considers an immutable monument. All performs reside paperwork, in a way, however Parks’s presumably greater than most.
ROB WEINERT-KENDT: You’ve received a extremely busy season developing, so there’s quite a bit to speak about. I first need to ask about Plays for the Plague Year, through which you’ll really be onstage as a part of the work. Is {that a} first?
SUZAN-LORI PARKS: You know, all of the world’s a stage, bruh, so I’ve appeared in my very own work for 59 years, proper? But yeah, that is the primary time in, like, an actual manufacturing. I used to be in Father Comes Home From the Wars, the very first incarnation again in ’08 or ’09—I used to be the musician on the aspect, taking part in the accompaniment, however I wasn’t performing.
So you’re performing in Plays for the Plague Year?
“Acting”—let’s use air quotes. The different performers say, “Oh, you’re such a good actor.” I’m not performing; I’m being myself. They’re performing.
Well, you actually have expertise being in entrance of individuals, even writing in entrance of them.
That’s proper. We’re constructing on that.
And it’s referred to as Plays, however I get the sense, because it’s at Joe’s Pub, that it’s received quite a lot of music.
It’s received 23 songs I wrote, music and lyrics. There would have been extra, however we needed to reduce a couple of. It’s like a musical play, a theatrical live performance—I’m positive that, , students and whatnots can have language to explain what it’s. People who’re watching it are going, “I’ve never seen anything like this. I don’t know what it’s called.” And I’m like, “It’s called Plays for the Plague Year.”
Speaking of musicals, there’s additionally The Harder They Come. At what stage is that mission?
We are in a workshop proper now on the Public—the three-week workshop the place you make all the most important selections. I’ve three songs in that present, three originals. I pulled many from the unique soundtrack, in addition to Jimmy Cliff’s stunning catalog and another classics, like “I Can See Clearly Now,” and laid them within the guide, however there have been a few locations the place we wanted a extremely particular tune. Tony and Sergio had been like, “We need a song for this moment to address exactly what is going on.” So I used to be like, “I’ll just write one.”
I need to get to Sally & Tom, however let’s speak for a second about Topdog/Underdog. That was a breakthrough play for you in some ways, your first to go to Broadway, and now it’s again. When you look again on it now, does it really feel in any respect like a distinct author, a distinct particular person, wrote that? Does it nonetheless sound such as you?
Does it sound like me? Fuck yeah, it nonetheless appears like me! It appears like me, declaring to the world, “This is who I am.” But, I imply, each play is like that for me. Lots of people who had fallen in love with Imperceptible Mutabilities within the Third Kingdom, and had been like, “Oh, we get you now,” then they noticed The Death of the Last Black Man within the Whole Entire World, which was me saying, “Well, actually, do you get me now?” And then I’m doing The America Play: Do you get me now? There’s all the time panic, like I’m going by some sort of—my son is 11 now, so puberty is a topic I’ve received on my thoughts—some sort of improvement. People are like, “We loved you years ago, now what are you doing?” And I’m like: I’m rising.
I seen that Paul Oscher, your first husband, who helped encourage Topdog, died final 12 months from COVID.
He did.
Were you continue to near him?
Oh, yeah. We received divorced in ’09, one thing like that, however we’d speak like each week; he would ship me issues within the mail, like, “Hey, girl, I found this guitar I think you might like.” He had moved to Austin, and I remarried. Christian Konopka—I say my husband’s identify as a result of typically Christian is known as Paul on-line, and no, not all white males look alike. The motive why Plays for the Plague Year doesn’t finish after a 12 months—it begins on the thirteenth of March 2020, and I might have completed it on thirteenth of March 2021, however I saved writing. And I do consider that I used to be stretching my arm to incorporate Paul; he wasn’t sick on the thirteenth of March, however I might really feel one thing altering. I needed to hold writing to verify he was included within the stunning banquet.
It appears like Plays for the Plague Years is a bit like 365 Plays or 100 Days, the product of quick day by day writing. Do you consider these all as totally different modes you go into—like, “Now I’m doing my daily-play writing, and next I’m working on my big history play”?
Well, gentle is a particle and a wave. I’ll simply word that I used to be writing Plays for the Plague Year whereas I used to be show-running Genius: Aretha, this ginormous TV factor, whereas I used to be additionally engaged on The United States Versus Billie Holiday. I used to be birthing these two epic tales about these two wonderful, iconic ladies, and I used to be doing my little day by day performs factor on the aspect. I used to be like: Shit, I gotta hold this actual, I gotta maintain on, and simply do my day by day displaying up, my day by day presence. So yeah, there are totally different modes on the identical time,
So we had been speaking about Topdog. I don’t know what else to say about it, besides so as to add that I didn’t see it on Broadway, however in L.A., with Larry Gilliard Jr. and Harold Perrineau. They killed it.
Well, like I instructed Yahya, Corey, and Kenny on Day One of rehearsal: It’s written for brothers to shine. That was my intent. It wasn’t essentially, “You know, I’m gonna write a play today” to try this—no, no, no. But each time I have a look at it, and each time I see it onstage, and each time I give it some thought, I believe: Oh, that was what it was for. I imply, I’m singing the tune. That’s what I do. I sit in rehearsal, and I’ll shout on the stage once they’re onstage. I’ll be like, Sing the tune, brother, sing the tune! Because they’re singing a tune of the spirit, the tune of the soul, for all of us to take pleasure in that communion, however particularly for Black males to sing this tune. So I’m thrilled to listen to—like, I used to be in L.A., and a few brother who labored in some division retailer, fancy, he was working throughout the plaza in Culver City, wherever it was, and I’m like, “Lord, have mercy, where’s this man going?” And he’s, “Miss Parks, Miss Parks—I was in Topdog!” So yeah, the transmission is going on.
That play has been produced quite a bit. When you return to a play, do you’re taking one other have a look at it and alter issues? I do know somebody who labored on the Signature mentioned you probably did a bunch of stuff with the brand new staging of The Death of the Last Black Man when it was a part of your season there.
It’s fascinating how establishments consider “a bunch of stuff.” I imply, I’m doing quite a lot of rewriting and dealing on Sally & Tom proper now that I’d name a bunch of stuff. With Topdog, 10 years in the past, after I did the revival at Two River, there have been some strains right here and there, and on Broadway we lastly reduce a chunk of textual content that wasn’t ever working. A producer would possibly name that “a bunch of stuff.” It’s all perspective. I tweak some stuff.
So have you ever performed some tweaking on the brand new Topdog?
Things like noticing: “Oh, gee, Lincoln wakes up in his costume, and then it happens again? We only need to do that once.” At the primary rehearsal, we see the set, and I’m like, “Kenny, what’s that over there?” He’s like, “It’s a sink.” And I am going, “Kenny…” And he goes, “I know—I know in the text it says, ‘We don’t got no running water, you don’t got no sink.’” And I’m like, “Kenny, do you want a sink?” He’s like, “Yeah, ’cause I got an idea.” So I simply reduce a line. So now it goes, “We don’t got no running water.” But they’ve a sink and the sink is used brilliantly. So now, ever after, the play can have a sink if the manufacturing so needs. You know, we’re versatile like that.
Speaking of rewriting and the rehearsal room, I used to be delighted to seek out that Sally & Tom is a backstager, concerning the manufacturing of a play about Sally Hemings and Thomas Jefferson.
Is that what they name it? A backstager—I like that.
But aside from the TV initiatives you talked about, you haven’t actually written about showbiz, what goes on behind the scenes, earlier than.
You’re proper. Though you possibly can say that Topdog/Underdog is about what goes on behind the scenes. They’re conscious of a sure performative side of their lives. “Every day, I leave my shit at the door, and this shit is hard.” But they’re not conscious that they’re conscious of it.
There’s a playwright character in Sally & Tom, Luce, and he or she says some issues I might think about could be true of you, like, “I wouldn’t have written a play like this 10 years ago.”
Well, I didn’t. So yeah, I might say that about myself. I wouldn’t have written a play like this 10 years in the past. That’s true.
To put a finer level on it, there’s additionally a line the place Luce says, “I wanted to reach a wider audience, to get my work out there for real.” And I ponder if these are phrases you’ve ever mentioned, both to your self or to a colleague or producer. Like, “These experimental plays are fine, but now I want to go to Broadway”?
Great query, bro. I as soon as had a dialog with someone who mentioned, “I want my plays done in every theatre,” and I used to be like: Huh, I really by no means thought that. But I’ve mentioned to myself: I need to be pretty much as good as I might be at what I do. Right?
We’re type of dancing across the huge subject right here, which is the historic relationship of Sally Hemings and Thomas Jefferson. You’ve riffed on historical past earlier than, and actually written performs set in it. What drew you to this story particularly?
You know, your primary Black lady, American particular person, in love with nice writers, questioning, what’s up with American historical past? Sally and Tom have been on my thoughts for a protracted, very long time. And , man, I like outdated tales, mythic tales, epic tales. That’s my jam. The story of Sally Hemings and Thomas Jefferson is a type of Great American tales histories.
Sure. It’s additionally a little bit of third rail, because it goes straight to problems with enslavement, sexual consent, race, the nation’s founding—quite a lot of hotly contested stuff in there.
You might say third rail, or you possibly can say lightning rod, a little bit of a conductor. It’s a possibility to develop our expertise at having a nuanced dialog about deep and maybe tough issues. I believe we’re missing in that space as of late, the place scorching take is the best way to go most of the time, the place you cancel someone in the event that they have a look at you improper. I do assume that whereas all that anger or response may be very justified—I imply, I’ve been Black my entire life, and if folks assume, “Oh, she’s not angry,” assume once more, motherfucker, assume once more, as Lincoln would say—I additionally very a lot extremely worth and proceed to hone the flexibility to have a nuanced dialog about what we name in Plays for the Plague Year “the difficult things.” What can we make of the tough issues? And so, simply to develop these muscle groups. Because if we don’t use these muscle groups, if we don’t train these muscle groups, and develop the flexibility to have an actual dialog about issues that had been traumatic to the likes of me, or the likes of you, or the likes of whomever—to have these conversations is the stuff that makes civilization.
To piggyback on that, folks go, “Why are you interested in trauma-based stories? Shouldn’t it all be Black joy?” Okay, good query. And considered one of my solutions to that could be: I learn someplace not too long ago that archaeologists discovered some type of skeleton who had had a bone damaged, and that leg had been mended. So caring for many who have been wounded is likely one of the first evidences of civilization. We can attain again to somebody who has been traumatized, whether or not they’re dwelling or lifeless, and produce them alongside and maintain them within the palm of our hand, like, in my understanding of spirituality, the creator does. We can look after them, and never simply flip a blind eye as a result of they make us really feel unhealthy. You know what I imply? We can present look after them. If we are able to exhibit care for many who have skilled trauma, that’s how we develop into human.
So it’s a conductor. It’s a 3rd rail, which may conduct us to some stunning questions, and a few conversations that could be tough to have, however we have to have them.
I don’t know if Thomas Bradshaw’s play Thomas and Sally, however that was picketed when it ran at Marin Theatre Company a couple of years in the past as a result of it was perceived as romanticizing the connection between a 44-year-old white enslaver and a 14-year-old Black woman he thought of his property.
Thomas Bradshaw is a tremendous author, however I’m not following in anyone’s footsteps when it comes to subject material. And I’m not acquainted with that controversy, however I’ve heard about it.
The bigger query is about consent. Obviously, you need to take the dialog past the place many people assume it ought to cease, which is to say that what Jefferson did to Sally Hemings was rape, interval; there’s no “love story” or ambiguity there to invest about. Obviously your play contends with that viewpoint, but additionally says extra.
It positive does. Maybe it was all rape and Stockholm syndrome, as they are saying within the play, or, as Sally says on the finish: “Maybe it wasn’t rape, or maybe it was, and maybe that’s all it was.” But what can we do now? What can we do with me being who I’m, and also you over there being your self, and now we now have to cope with one another? The play is not only about what occurred to them again then; it’s about the best way we dwell now, and the way we perceive what occurred to them or wrestle with it or work by it, and the way we’re nonetheless working by it right now.
Even that’s a simplification of the play, as a result of it’s additionally about who will get to face within the gentle; about who will get to be onstage; about making house. I inform folks, the extra I write, the extra I understand I write to create space. I don’t write to point out off my linguistic gymnastics. I write to create house. Silence and house for folks to be, for people to be human.
It’s demonstrated within the writing of the play, which tells me the whole lot. I wrote a speech for Jefferson first. By the time we get to the top of the play, Sally has her very stunning monologue. And then, throughout the workshops this previous summer season, [director] Steve Broadnax was like, “I think James Hemings could have more than the one little speech he gets.” So I went dwelling and wrote him two pages of a speech, which is likely one of the most stunning speeches I’ve written. And I let you know, I’d not have been in a position to hear the tune of James Hemings as depicted within the play if I had not given ear and coronary heart and soul to the tune of Thomas Jefferson, and had I not given ear and coronary heart and soul to the tune of Sally Hemings. Do you see what I imply? What can we open ourselves as much as if we don’t simply say, “We have nothing to talk about, it’s just rape”? We’d be closing ourselves off from some riches that I have to go and get. That speech of James Hemings is a type of stunning riches that the play has, that I’ve made house for, as a result of I opened my coronary heart to some actually tough shit.
Speaking of creating house, there’s a complete technology of writers you helped pave the best way for, significantly younger playwrights like Branden Jacobs-Jenkins, Jackie Sibblies Drury, and Aleshea Harris, who problem obtained notions about what a “Black play” might be.
Right, I wrote an essay about that. It’s humorous, we had been laughing about that very query in rehearsal, and somebody regarded up, “What is the Black play?” on-line, and naturally, it goes to an essay by Suzan-Lori Parks, and I’m like, “Oh, shit, maybe we should just read that.” Because yeah, I spent a while fascinated with that. In music they are saying, you play who you’re. They don’t say, “Be confined to address specific themes in a certain way.” We have to proceed to be expansive in our understanding.
One of my favourite options in American Theatre ever was your interview with August Wilson. It wasn’t a passing of the torch, precisely, however it felt like a stunning cross-generational trade, and I simply marvel if you happen to really feel the identical towards succeeding generations of writers.
I’m thrilled; I’m so proud and enthusiastic about all the brand new writers. They’re doing Vietgone right here on the Guthrie, and among the actors are hanging out with us throughout breaks, and happening and on about how a lot they love the work of Suzan-Lori Parks, and people aren’t Black people. It’s the affect I’ve on everyone. I don’t see myself as passing the torch— me, I’m humorous about language. I’m sharing the hearth. I’m right here; I nonetheless received shit to do. Just like Kenny Leon in rehearsal is sharing the hearth, similar to August, or actually James Baldwin, when he was my inventive writing instructor, shared the hearth. I didn’t really feel like he was “passing the torch.” Also, there’s one other phrase, “I’m standing on your shoulders, queen!” Don’t stand on my shoulders. Walk in my firm. I like when folks stroll in my firm, stroll the highway that I helped pave, or the trail that I helped clear, together with August and Ntozake and Amiri Baraka and Alice Childress and Lorraine, all these folks. We’re nonetheless clearing the trail.
I simply have another query: How do you handle to do as a lot as you do? In any line of labor, your productiveness could be staggering. What’s your secret? Lots of espresso?
It’s not espresso—prepping for Plays for the Plague Year, I’m working with this excellent singing instructor, and he was like, 4 months in the past, “Quit coffee.” I believe present working, which I did first on Genius: Aretha, ready me to do three world premieres and a Broadway revival at identical time. It has ready me to work on the highest stage and intention towards excellence. Also, I’m very clear now, greater than ever, on my mission: I’m working to create what I instructed the solid of Sally & Tom I name sacred brokers, brokers of the sacred. They had been like, “Whoa, that’s heavy.” And I’m like, “But it’s fun too, right?” So we’re all on the market singing the tune. I’m working with some nice folks: Niegel Smith, Kenny Leon, Steve Broadnax, Tony Taccone and Sergio Trujillo. Lileana Blain-Cruz and I are engaged on a brand new mission. So I really feel like I’m surrounding myself with love, and thru that comes an enormous quantity of vitality. I don’t have an assistant or reply my emails or cellphone calls. I may not be as quick as I could possibly be. But I deeply love what I’m doing.
Rob Weinert-Kendt (he/him) is the editor-in-chief of American Theatre. rwkendt@tcg.org
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