Fumbani Innot Phiri Jr.: Welcome to Critical Stages in Malawian Contemporary Theatre podcast, produced for HowlRound Theatre Commons, a free and open platform for theatremakers worldwide, in partnership with [Advancing] Arts Forward, a motion to advance fairness, inclusion, and justice via the humanities by creating liberated area that uplift, heal and encourages to vary the world. I’m your host, Fumbani Innot Phiri Jr, a producer, actor, director, playwright, and naturally, a contract journalist.
Critical Stages in Malawian Contemporary Theatre is a podcast that interviews established theatre artists from all backgrounds. It explores precarious journey of theatre in fashionable world, defines the issue, the higher resolution to maintain the tradition of performing arts on this technology of movement footage. It is time to incite as we outline the existence of essential array via inventive discussions. In this podcast, I’ll affiliate dialogue with established performers, administrators, and writers which are exploring methods of greeting out the challenges whereas their works encourage the neighborhood.
First episode of this podcast, I’m with Robert Magasa. He’s a contract artist; an skilled actor in bodily theatre, movie, and radio drama; A choreographer; and a up to date dancer that skilled with Dance Trust of Zimbabwe. Magasa can also be skilled in facilitating theatre for change, theatre for growth. He has huge expertise in each native and worldwide stage. Featured contains Von Mäusen und Meschen in Germany, The Tempest in United Kingdom, Animal Farm in Germany, The Frogs, Taming of the Shrew, Accidental Death for Democracy. He’s additionally an icon on TV collection in Malawi, contains: Timasukirane, The Famous One, and Choices. Film contains Okoma Atani, Who Cares?, The Green Bomber, and in addition embody The Undone Dawn, The Isle, The Journey Through the Life, and all this manufacturing encourage Robert Magasa to discover extra lifetime of dance and theatre. Robert Magasa has been performing as a visitor actor in additional than ten main theatre manufacturing, which has toured Malawi, South Africa, Scotland, England, Germany, and lots of different international locations. He’s the founding member of UjeNi Dance Ensemble Theatre.
You’re welcome to this podcast. First of all, who’s Robert Magasa? People must know Robert Magasa.
Robert Magasa: Well, there’s the artist me—
Fumbani: Right.
Robert:—however there’s additionally a chief in me. There’s additionally a husband in me. There’s additionally a father in me. That’s my private view. So, once we speak about professional-wise, Robert is solely an actor. I began, I feel, after I was in secondary college. I used to be at Zingwangwa, in 2005 there, after I was in type 4. So you see, you simply noticed what the college is doing when it comes to the drama college, and you want what individuals are doing, however you might be like resent, and also you don’t need to be a part of that. But you might be like, “Okay, I can do this.” But my final 12 months in school, I used to be like, “I cannot go out like this, so let me just try something.”
Fumbani: Something. Yeah. Right.
Robert: Okay? So as lots of the actors in Malawi, I’m a product of ATEM
Fumbani: Right.
Robert: Yeah. So my first 12 months, we did three months rehearsal in school. Then, once we featured our ATEM, my first artwork—I nonetheless bear in mind the character, Mr. Pofera Salambula, and the play was Double Blow—was chosen one of the best English speaker, one of the best actor of the day. Right?
Fumbani: Wow!
Robert: So then that really ignites all of it. I went loopy and I used to be like, “Okay, I want to do this.” Yeah.
Fumbani: So it’s form of the journey began in secondary college, then you definitely already say, “Okay, I’m theatre actor, let me explore.”
Robert: Yeah.
Fumbani: Then, after secondary college, I’ve seen Robert Magasa set of productions. I’ve seen Robert Magasa at Nanzikambe. I’ve seen Robert Magasa with different collaboration. Then, I’ve seen Robert Magasa working a theatre group.
Robert: Yes.
Fumbani: UjeNi. Yes?
Robert: UjeNi.
Fumbani: Right? So what made you to give you an expert theatre, like a founder with your individual theatre group?
Robert: I feel you’ll be an excellent instance, otherwise you would know why individuals would truly begin their very own theatre teams. It’s not like the thought of what occurs with church buildings in Malawi, the place I’ve obtained an issue with the Pastor, then I begin my very own and take half of it as my congregation.
For me, it was after secondary college. I needed to do journalism, however you’ve obtained a dad that’s… and 4 siblings which are in search of one one that is definitely on a low-paying job and is like,” okay, I’ve obtained expertise however we’re ready to seek out cash for college, why not?” So I began with Wankhumbata. We did one piece, however I noticed how Khumbo was working Wankhumbata. Then I used to be like, “okay, so if it’s like this, then why not?” We began Banthu Arts Theatre, similar to how we began YDC, simply to have a look at the youth.
Fumbani: Yeah. Alright, I get it.
Robert: How we will get ourselves busy and never indulge into unhealthy behaviors and perhaps alcohol and medicines abuse kind of. But that was a journey, and once we began then that’s it. I simply obtained caught in it. Really, he was truly caught, they usually had been like, okay, I’m good at this, I can’t be caught. How greatest can we do that? I began a bunch; UjeNi was simply an concept. Then, began working with Nanzikambe. Nanzikambe truly uncovered me to lots of worldwide theatre and dance. That’s after I obtained the thought of bodily theatre. Then, begin to examine choreography and get into dance. When we realized we’re the one dancing individuals in Malawi, we had been like, okay, contemporary-wise, let’s get to begin an organization.
So it began as a revolution. So it was me, Joshua, and Peter Magalani. Peter moved out, Joshua went perform a little research, then I used to be nonetheless there. So I get out with Mphundu then we began UjeNi Theatre Dance Ensemble. The concept for us now was enterprise, to earn money. So we had been promoting our merchandise when it comes to theatre for growth. We had been additionally doing choreography and video making and simply artwork session and stuff. Sure.
Fumbani: All proper. We noticed Robert Magasa within the early days on stage actually, as you say, with some theatre firm.
Robert: I miss that.
Fumbani: Then, there was a quiet second, then you definitely got here again with on you, or seeing you, on stage dancing, and proper now you’re the motivator of upcoming dancers, mainly, who do bodily theatre, who do dance theatre, of which we missed in Malawi. You determined to say, “Okay, let me pursue this as my profession.” Having an business whereby is crippled when it comes to funds, when it comes to enterprise, however nonetheless you stick with the enterprise, and you might be right here till now. And many of the children they obtained impressed from you.
How did you problem your self to suit your self into dance theatre?
Robert: It nonetheless is a really enormous problem. If you speak concerning the dance, you’ll say, “Well, why didn’t you just stop it?” But you understand how a lot ardour you breathe for it. You will do something simply to seek out an excuse to take one other step into the identical factor irrespective of how crushed you get. But I’ve traveled fairly all over the world, I’ve seen how others are doing it, and you might be like, “We are not far from this.” When you get there, collaboration when it comes to cultural trade packages and different individuals coming to see the way you do, you go see how they do—these form of issues, the worldwide issues—they really hold you going.
But as a result of you possibly can go six months, seven months with out a correct job right here regionally, however you get one and increase, you bought tens of millions to run round with. So that really, I used to be like, “Okay, let’s bank it on this one.” But there have been lots of challenges, particularly after I selected dance, to begin, to maneuver out of theatre as a result of individuals till at this time don’t know that before everything I’m the actor, then the dancer.
Fumbani: Yeah.
Robert: When I spotted this, after I got here from Zimbabwe to do the theatre dance choreography diploma, I did end that one, in fact, however we obtained the paper later. So after I return to Malawi, and we’re attempting to reveal dance to everybody, particularly an area viewers, the response was like, wow, however each actor then would say, why are they doing? Because you’re doing one thing a bit totally different individuals perceive. But that is what motivated me, each time I carried out dance with Joshua, individuals, particularly children, would come to us and ask one similar query, how did you do this? We need to study that. Older individuals will all the time ask the identical questions, such as you made me really feel totally different. I may let you know’re emotionally… Your physique was telling you a sure emotional story, I may marry it to that, however I don’t perceive it, however I really feel precisely what you might be saying.
So this actor was like, okay. Now, we can not earn money into performing, you already know it, particularly in Malawi or elsewhere on this planet as effectively. If the artwork will not be funded, particularly in theatre then we do. So we went into academic theatre as a result of certainly one of our studying classes in Zimbabwe was edutainment. So the best way to earn money utilizing dance. So we went into academic. So now we educate, I exploit dance as a device, in fact, theatre from time to time, that’s a device to get to younger individuals and categorical themself. We have a studio now at KwaHaraba Arts Cafe, we do each Saturday for the previous 4 years. The concept is simply to offer your child some data and confidence. For a younger lady, the best way to possess magnificence, use it, and get sensible. For a boy, the best way to respect the opposite gender, and simply be sensible about… Everybody’s complaining about weaker males, we’re attempting to construct alpha males utilizing dance and simply get them expressed actually.
Fumbani: Yeah. Okay. So you began UjeNi Theatre, and all the way in which. As to me, aside from that being the theatre artist as effectively, I do know Robert Magasa approach again as an actor. But proper now, I do know Robert Magasa extra of a choreographer than a dancer, and many of the guys proper now is aware of you as a dancer, and you’ve got a company. There is a bit totally different the way you conduct your issues. Of course, you might be explaining about training theatre, however we haven’t seen UjeNi Theatre commercializing a particular present for itself. Right? Okay, we’re reserving Jacaranda Cultural Center, now we have a present, individuals ought to have the ticket. Mostly, we’d see UjeNi Theatre as a result of via an initiative. There’s initiative, UjeNi Theatre is there to carry out.
Robert: Perform. Yeah.
Fumbani: Lucky sufficient, you might be on the panel, you and Joshua simply say, “Let’s interactive with the guys,” you go and dance and stuff. So that inspiration, why don’t you commercialize your reveals?
Robert: When Joshua determined to do analysis, I used to be working the group as a solo man. So regardless of the initiative and on our organogram, all that was there, that had been adopted, it means it was solely me many of the instances. But when you haven’t seen, I’ve finished performances there, free performances, however they go in colleges as effectively. So I carry out there for teenagers, however my energy is all the time modern. So after I need to do theatre, I do each of them, and I combine them collectively. But you haven’t seen us as a result of we’re at a stage the place so that you can stage a efficiency, and for a company like UjeNi Theatre Dancing Ensemble, is that folks is aware of us due to the spine of Nanzikambe Arts, and the spine of Banthu arts.
Fumbani: Yeah. Sure.
Robert: So they know us as actors, however dance and dancers as effectively. But to stage a efficiency, beginning to budgeting and stuff, and when you run it as a enterprise, like I advised you, once we began the group we needed it to be enterprise. So for me, over time I didn’t see the explanation of investing right into a manufacturing, the place I do know I’d make a loss. So it may very well be the lazy facet of it, or now you develop up, you might be such as you obtained household, or ought to I actually put 1,000,000 kwacha in a manufacturing? Will I get it again? You’re like, okay, you resent your self since you don’t need. So when there’s initiatives like these, you are taking a possibility to get into the area and carry out and to maintain. But when you examine our web page, we all the time publish some issues that we do. We’re doing dancing with incapacity now. We’re attempting to get to varsities, in major colleges and secondary colleges, hyperlink this with some guys in Switzerland.
The concept is to convey again bodily workout routines in class. So we’re doing dance to class mission, I name it dancing to class kind of, in order that we’re giving a child some kind of a factor to look ahead to, to return to high school. Of recently, I’ve realized lots of our youngsters come from damaged houses, and the colleges, when it comes to authorities colleges ratio of a instructor and the coed is basically enormous. It’s actually enormous. So we would like truly these children to be identified and categorical themself and this could be the place to.
You are utilizing dance, and thru dance you’ve found an angle of penetration for social change.
Fumbani: Yeah. Okay. Now, let’s stick with theatre for training.
Robert: Okay.
Fumbani: I’ve found most of your work, you’re employed with youngsters associated to a sure college or sure establishment. Now, via your expertise and discover about theatre for training right here in Malawi, do you assume there’s a potential that if we will make the most of training theatre, begin from the grassroots stage, we will change the dimension of performing arts?
Robert: Oh, it’s not solely the dimension, the performing arts is big.
Fumbani: All proper.
Robert: Our children in authorities college, they don’t know the best way to categorical themselves. They go to high school, they bully one another, they keep quiet like that. So they go to high school as a result of they’re weak, they attempt to be stronger and bully others which are weaker however they don’t stand for themselves. A woman youngster has obtained an issue from the place they began to see gender adjustments in them. They don’t know the best way to categorical it. Now, whenever you put theatre in there, you’re making somebody who’s so sensible. You are creating little geniuses. So it’s much more for me than only a performing artwork, getting the artists from the college. But whosoever goes to go major college or authorities colleges, as an actor, then you definitely educate these. Wherever they go, they are going to use this ability and be good entrepreneurs, publicity talkers. They’ll be the whole lot. They might be the whole lot.
Fumbani: Yeah.
Robert: Yeah. So for me-
Fumbani: Even the problems of the best way to assume. Logical considering.
Robert: Logical considering and customary sense is simply obtained… authorities colleges on the town, higher as a result of they’re uncovered to issues on the web and on TV. But I’ll attempt to be on the village and to speak to any person at commonplace eight, you’ll really feel sorry, and you might be like, “Okay, I’m very much equipped.” “I’m just lacking maybe, what? Transport to come here and motivate these people for one hour.” That adjustments the whole lot as a result of it’s the way you speak. You as an individual, that’s usually like, okay, so I felt individual can speak like this. Some of us, we haven’t been to the colleges, and we get our papers on-line, or simply perhaps alternatives that we get. But then, you speak about we’re performing, we’re doing dance, and the humorous factor is when you point out about dance. When I say I’m a dancer, they are going to say, what? Really?
Fumbani: Yes, dancer.
Robert: But when you see the subsequent who know, to any person who is aware of me, and he’s simply launched himself as a dancer, however he does this, he does that. But nonetheless, I’ve to face and say I’m a dancer in Malawi, and it’s taking place as a result of many of the cash I made, it was not… I imply, theatre put me there, dance made me the cash, and folks don’t know the way till at this time. But there’s a strategy to make it via dancing.
Fumbani: Yeah, to maintain your self for—
Robert: For certain. I imply, it’s a tough profession like some other else. Marketing can also be laborious. You go two, three days with out promoting; you promote, increase, you bought cash.
Fumbani: Now, I found that there’s a lot in what you do on the examine for training. But I found that there’s theatre for social change. You talked about inclusive theatre efficiency, whereby you need to do dance with disabilities and stuff. It’s form of new dimension in Malawi. We have some makes an attempt approach again to introduce a community of inclusive theatre in Malawi.
Robert: Oh, you have to inform me about that. I didn’t know.
Fumbani: Yeah, I’ll let you know. So we’ll talk about that one.
Robert: Okay.
Fumbani: Because for the previous years, you’d see a manufacturing, whereby they may infuse somebody with incapacity simply because to wow the viewers.
Robert: I see after I’m judging artwork, and simply giving the mode of sympathy.
Fumbani: Sympathy and stuff. Right?
Robert: They misuse them.
Fumbani: But not using them to inform their story.
Robert: Actually, Fumbani, that’s what made me began the dance with incapacity, or theatre with incapacity. That’s what made me, as a result of I believed individuals had been misusing them. For me, you must look to them, what their skills are. If it’s simply lifting your hand, and do a choreography with all people else about lifting their palms, embody them. So that they know that if it’s 5 minutes, the 4 minutes they’re doing it, not as a result of they had been right into a transitional scene or one thing. That’s an insult.
Fumbani: Yeah. Very.
Robert: It is.
Fumbani: So you might be introducing dance with the disabilities. Yes, I’ve seen some couple of works you’re doing. Jacaranda, I noticed there was one participant and stuff. Apart from using individuals with incapacity to make use of their artwork for performing artwork, to inform their tales, what else have you ever found this strategy of utilizing inclusive theatre?
Robert: Oh, I’ve simply began this actually not too long ago, however I’ll let you know it’s a tricky journey as a result of it takes your time quite a bit as a result of you must… It’s totally different from those that are ready. But now, you meet two totally different individuals with disabilities, however you have to know what they’re doing. What are they able to doing? What can you don’t to transcend? What can you don’t to insult them? Sort of. So that has all the time for me, being power draining, but additionally as a result of it’s the adventurous a part of the way in which of creating theatre. I actually like that. Last 12 months, for instance, I had a collaboration with Theatre Suffolk from London. We did a mission. It was merely as simply them and a bunch of individuals with disabilities right here to debate what they’re doing.
So we did dance underneath the moon kind of, they usually had been excited, particularly to share the little issues like Manganje, and to see individuals on the wheelchair attempting to do the Manganje with solely the palms and spinning on the chair. So the method for me, at first, was actually laborious as a result of you possibly can’t see go via them. You actually need to see that, and to not fake however be with them, and that takes persistence. I feel I thank God for that reward although.
Fumbani: Yeah.
Robert: Yeah.
Fumbani: I feel it’s fairly fascinating to find a sure style you have to work in. I imply, you might be utilizing dance, and thru dance you’ve found an angle of penetration for social change. You found, okay, let me make the most of individuals with incapacity to inform their very own tales. On high of that, it’s fairly fascinating that you’re specializing in younger individuals. You see, you’re creating an area for them to imagine themselves—
Robert: Yeah, for certain.
Fumbani: —and the youth. You speak concerning the problems with how they’ll current themselves to the society. If they like to face it out, this initiative will exit as a increase. We see—
Robert: Yeah, for certain.
Fumbani: —these road beggars who’re begging proper now with disabilities as a result of they didn’t have a possibility to specific their expertise. Right? So I’m very overwhelmed. I wasn’t anticipating this dialogue to go like this.
Robert: Actually, two days in the past I had a name from a physician pal of mine. I’m not going to call him, however he works with Queens. I’ve been to high school with him, and he got here to Jacaranda, and we did a chunk—for me, I name it preciously Jacaranda as a result of the man is valuable—and he’s obtained some few mates. He’s all the time on wheelchair. We did a minor choreography. So once they come via, they noticed this sooner or later, and he phoned me. It was like, “Man, I’m so amazed with what you’re doing, instead of therapy kind of way of doing things. I want all my patients to come through you.” So I obtained a cellphone name yesterday. “I really told somebody to call you, so that she’s bipolar, and she wants to become a journalist but she’s got a problem of also speech. So maybe you can talk to her, dance with her, see how you can advise her. You, bring them on.” I imply, I’m linked to the media as effectively. “You bring her to people who are actually doing it well in journalism, they’ll talk to her, then they got… We might not get her to be the journalist, but we will inspire her definitely.” So from subsequent week, I feel that’s additionally what I’m attending to, and thank God now we have any person who’s at Queens like that, then refer individuals to us like this. So we’re utilizing the identical artwork as a device simply to vary extra.
Surprisingly, I loved educating greater than dancing. That’s why you don’t discover me truly dancing.
Fumbani: Yeah. Now, we’re from theatre for social change, now you’re going to drama remedy.
Robert: Yes.
Fumbani: That will assist the society. What I found from you and from the earlier visitor on this podcast is that now we have totally different angles how we’re coping with theatre in Malawi. Some are coping with lecturers being academics or lecturers. Some are dealing as passionate actors to work within the discipline. You are passionate, and on high of that, profession-wise, you might be using the scenario you’ve gotten within the nation to inform the message, to tell, to coach.
Robert: Yes.
Fumbani: On high of that, what I’m pleased is that this dialog is sparking lots of stuff, of which after this podcast we’re going to debate extra.
Robert: That’s what I would like. I imply, it’s been there, I’ve been doing it half-half or full-full, then you definitely put your full pace in it. But whenever you’re speaking to individuals like this, particularly I do know you might be passionately concerned on this 100% deep, and there’s one thing I’m certain you’re choosing and we will give you… and I would like individuals additionally to work. I imply, it’s all the time me, and I’m like, “Okay, this is my week and how am I going to handle it?” I introduced lots of dancers with me. So we do additionally personal dance courses in individuals’s, particularly consultants that is available in Malawi they usually’re in search of extracurricular actions. But I can’t do them alone.
So I practice individuals, I practice dancers. The ones that I get from Kajive is those that I discover into areas on the street. As lengthy as you’re good, for me, I inform each dancer that simply don’t dance, there’s no cash in that as a result of that is how I obtained it via. A choreographer that was from London, Ipswich, was in Malawi as a choreographer at Nanzikambe after I was beginning. But she was educating at Hillview. So after I began dance is like, “Okay, how is she doing this?” So she would observe and simply see what she’s doing, and he or she would invite you into courses oh alright but it surely’s very simple. So when she left, her identify was Samantha Moss, when she left, she left the college for me to show.
Fumbani: Yeah.
Robert: So surprisingly, I loved educating greater than dancing. That’s why you don’t discover me truly dancing, and also you’re like, “You call yourself a dancer but you don’t dance.”
Fumbani:—Dance.
Robert: I’m like… Sumadya Malonda ako omwe.
Fumbani: Yeah. All proper. Okay. Now, the journey of being a dancer, an actor, you discover. You’ve gone to a number of international locations, you work together with lots of professional. Element of Intercultural trade, and you might be one of many few actors in Malawi who’ve traveled quite a bit.
Robert: For certain. I thank God for that.
Fumbani: Yeah. I imply, touring is valuable. You see?
Robert: Oh, it’s.
Fumbani: It’s valuable.
Robert: I adore it. I miss it after COVID, trying ahead to a brand new one.
Fumbani: Now, the fruits of these touring, cultural trade packages, now we have seen them. How your career is altering every day.
Robert: Wow! Okay.
Fumbani: Each and on daily basis.
Robert: I’m glad.
Fumbani: Yeah. People will go to your hyperlink to see all of the content material.
Robert: Yeah.
Fumbani: Right.
Robert: For certain.
Fumbani: So now, again to Malawi, the business.
Robert: Yes.
Fumbani: It’s in shamble. Some are surviving.
Robert: I want there was a greater strategy to describe it. Shambles? Shamble is sweet, man.
Fumbani: Nice?
Robert: Yeah.
Fumbani: Or what are you able to say?
Robert: I don’t know. Are we not buried already attempting to kick the field, whereas we dip into the soil?
Fumbani: Maybe there are some who’re simply attempting to outlive.
Robert: But perhaps that’s too laborious for me to say. But it’s a pity truly since you have a look at authorities campaigns and advert concepts of using individuals, speaking about a million jobs. If you set few tens of millions in artwork, you’ve obtained these jobs.
Fumbani: Yeah.
Robert: If one firm simply consider taking one artist to do their… it’s a analysis firm, or simply to go about and do consciousness. If that’s developing as soon as a month or as soon as in two months, then this man has obtained one thing doing. The factor about us is you give us a efficiency cash, it’s not solely me coming as a result of his mind wants quite a bit. It’s like a physique wants lots of elements. So now we have neutralized it. I’ll simply take you again from Du Chisiza once we had no devices to do leisure with us. He was intelligent sufficient to carry out in colleges for years and he was rising his personal viewers, and oh God he’s a legend. He’s father of up to date theatre in Malawi. People all the time speak about him like god of theatre, which I want to imagine that. But if Du was right here, alive, he would do what I’m doing. He would change. He would’ve additionally remodeled.
Fumbani: Yeah.
Robert: Because the way in which we’re doing theatre will not be the way in which he was—
Fumbani: Was doing theatre. Yeah. He survived three a long time with theatre.
Robert: Yes. He may have revolved. If you have a look at me, you have a look at the fruits of Du Chisiza and look how primary it may have been at this time.
Fumbani: Yeah.
Robert: We are you, Frank Patani the late, all people else who’s doing that, they’re the brand new Du Chisiza Juniors. They’re doing their issues in response to how they perceive theatre. We speak about comedy additionally right here, that’s the identical factor. Izeki ndi Jakobo are also the masters of comedy, and also you’ll see additionally two acts all the time with regards to comedy.
Fumbani: Yeah.
Robert: What I’m attempting to say truly is theatre in Malawi is simple to make as a result of individuals are keen about it. They don’t go to high school, however they know the best way to do these items. We have lots of expertise that must be unearthed proper there. But nobody’s bringing any cash. I’ve combat this for years, once they rent me to go carry out at a company occasion, you might be there, they usually already treating you underneath. They paid you already little cash, and I imply, the least they may do is simply to deal with you proper.
Fumbani: Yeah. The respect will not be there.
Robert: Yeah. It’s not there in any respect. So a few of us we combat for rebranding ourself, and now when you want Robert Magasa, you must have his cash for him to carry out if it’s dancing or theatre. If I am going there, I’m not amongst all people else who’s on the occasion. I must the sure room or only a place the place if I sit. I sit in my automotive; it’s high quality. But very well-known group right here in Malawi, conventional dancers, I don’t need to even identify names, however I went to a marriage someplace, it was marriage ceremony, they usually had been standing outdoors ready to carry out. This is an precise what we’re going via as artist. But it begins with us to speak.
Fumbani: Yeah.
Robert: To voice up issues. So once they see us already treating one another like this, they know we will do something for cash, and that’s the place they obtained us.
Fumbani: Now, in Malawi, you’ve gotten a number of festivals, proper? Several festivals. We can identify it. Tumaini Festival, Blantyre Festival, and we’re coming with Malawi International Theatre Festival.
Robert: Yes.
Fumbani: For the primary time.
Robert: For the primary time.
Fumbani: Maybe that one shall be totally different as a result of it will be absolutely theatre efficiency.
Robert: Right. Actually, I’m trying ahead to that. I’ve by no means obtained excited for one thing for thus lengthy.
Fumbani: For a theatre. So we won’t speak about that one, however all these platforms, proper? You have expressed exploitation, artists exploiting fellow artists due to performances. Respect. Also, killing, then blinding of fellow artists—
Robert: For certain.
Fumbani: —right here in Malawi. So I’ll return. Yes, theatre has modified. You speak of… there’s social media, there’s Netflix, there’s stuff.
Robert: A number of issues.
Fumbani: Youngsters of this technology, you’ll discover a couple of of them with the eagerness to observe theatre. That’s killing the market as effectively. Now, in most of my dialogue podcast, I am going to refer our icons: Gertrude Kamkwatira and Du Chisiza.
Robert: Yes.
Fumbani: How they had been doing their issues approach again up to now. So I can’t speak about Du Chisiza as a result of we’ll evaluate how the media was, now coming to 2000. You may see the rise of Gertrude Kamkwatira. How she sustained theatre being a feminine, and that’s very troublesome in Malawi to discover a feminine author, producer, and the director.
Robert: Yes, it’s.
Fumbani: Yeah. But she dominated the entire business—
Robert: Oh, she did it.
Fumbani:. —with out donor—
Robert: No donor cash.
Fumbani: —cash.
Robert: Well, she had donor cash from corporations, however not worldwide.
Fumbani: Yeah, like stockholders.
Robert: Yes, stockholders.
Fumbani: Because she was promoting the branding of the—
Robert: The manufacturers.
Fumbani: Right?
Robert: Yeah.
Fumbani: So that was enterprise.
Robert: Business. Yeah.
Fumbani: Right? By that point, you possibly can see the rise of Nanzikambe utilizing donor funding.
Robert: For certain.
Fumbani: You may see the rise of Solomonic utilizing donors. Right? But how, I bear in mind there was a quote she wrote, “These donors will kill your industry.” Right? So I’m attempting to refer how she said these methods, shortly in 2011, now we have political instability within the nation. You had been there at Nanzikambe, how the area was rasked, the donors went out, you had been there at French Cultural. It went out.
Robert: Yeah. I bear in mind French Cultural.
Fumbani: Then, you don’t have an area to carry out.
Robert: Nothing.
Fumbani: You don’t have an area to carry out.
Robert: Nothing.
Fumbani: Then, you possibly can see theatre going—
Robert: Down.
Fumbani: —down. Most of the artist struggling. People will say, theatre is down as a result of they had been was once paid after performances every time. But nonetheless Gertrude in these days she was surviving, however no one tries to mix the thought updated. Now—
Robert: Who desires to do the laborious factor? I imply, that’s the opposite factor additionally. I envy her power, and the drive that she had. I by no means obtained an opportunity to work together with her, however we interacted earlier than. But I actually like the purpose that you simply put when it comes to how did she handle to do it in 2000s. I imply, early 2000 the place additionally know-how was already superior and folks had lots of outlet to devour when it comes to mental property, and he or she actually was good. But what she wrote about… I learn that one, that these donors sooner or later they’ll kill your artwork. That’s very true. Nanzikambe, increase, gone. Whatever politics occurred there, we had been there at the moment, and we had… What I preferred about Nanzikambe was we obtained trainings and we obtained uncovered to the extent the place you wanted to go outdoors the nation to get that have.
So we used to get it there. For me, all people that labored with Nanzikambe throughout Melissa time, when you have a look at them now, they’re all the time stars in no matter they do. But the issue is as a result of they had been receiving some huge cash for his or her work, they obtained settled with that, and it was laborious for everyone else to exit and search for funds and are available and do sustainable theatre. Now, that brings in me as a result of I used to be a part of that small cycle, and also you ask questions like why we don’t see you performing? I, easy, let you know that it’s enterprise. If I can’t put my {dollars} in there, if I’m undecided if I’m going to get it again. So for me, that’s the place naturally I believed okay, let’s construct our personal theatre, individuals. Let’s construct our personal viewers How Du you used to do it.
So you go carry out, what you guys do without cost to a college, you already set up that in them, as a result of I be on TV and watch motion pictures. I be on radio, hearken to one thing. But if I sit down watching an actual power on stage, interacting, see each drop of sweat and confusion and feelings instantly on stage, belief me, it’s not going to be like a film. It’s not going to be like a radio. It’s totally different. An expertise for many who haven’t skilled it, you simply need to do it as soon as earlier than you die. It’s actually superb. So perhaps additionally the way in which we work as an artist right here, artists in Malawi as a physique, I feel for me, it’s additionally an issue when it comes to collaborative works.
For us, if we do lots of festivals like the approaching in of the International Festival, the opposite festivals, perhaps the Solomonic Festival and all of these—If you convey all of those and make them theatre solely form of, in order that we all know that we’re constructing our personal individuals. In these, now we have martinis, now we have individuals, children coming in to carry out, children come and see good manufacturing, and we’re motivating our personal children, kind of doing. I feel that’s the route we have to take, and a few of us began it a couple of years in the past. Sure.
The factor is, the factor about historical past is it’s obtained a really strict agenda. If we received’t watch out, we’ll be remembered as a rustic the place all people arrived too late.
Fumbani: All proper. Okay. So how theatres concerned are coming mainly very quick. You speak from 2014 to 2019. Theatre modified very quick. You would uncover little viewers as a result of individuals are so taken away with movement footage. Right? So proper now, as you’re doing dance, how did you contemplate to contain with dance and digital? How do you contemplate to contain dance and the way the media’s flowing?
Robert: So I feel we’re doing little much less about it. We’re utilizing simply media and the way the know-how goes pace now. Mostly we do use only for promoting. So we use social media for promoting, simply individuals to get by. But this, I’ve realized it’s not working truly. So even phrase to mouth can also be a greater advertising than simply on social media, if I say we’re coming. we’re coming. So we have to discover a approach when it comes to promoting our work. I obtained concerned in reconstruction of FAM, not FAM however Theatre Association of Malawi. We noticed some advertising individuals coming via, and I feel that’s the route we have to take. Get recommendation for actual entrepreneurs and see how greatest we will truly rebrand ourselves, and make this as a viable possibility for say, there’s a soccer day and any person assume twice, ought to I actually go to soccer, or ought to I obtained to see theatre? We can do this as a result of now we have the expertise. We have individuals that may compete on Hollywood.
We’ve obtained people who have, I imply, enormous expertise that’s going… not coaching in any respect. Now, this remind me. I had a pal, a director pal of mine from Germany, he got here to Malawi they usually’re up there we did some auditions. This is what he stated to me: “What? You mean every person who came through today never been to a school of arts?” I used to be like, “Yeah, including myself.” “Oh, my goodness. But the people you have here, if I can only have one month with them and I know I can come up with a lot of work.”
Fumbani: Very.
Robert: And COVID hit.
Fumbani: Yeah. Even COVID, confuses everybody. It blocked the opposition of the best way to work together.
Robert: Interact. Yes.
Fumbani: More festivals went down. Of course, now we have the hybrid, add some stuff. Of course, COVID additionally convey some alternatives.
Robert: Yeah.
Fumbani: Open our minds the best way to shift. Yeah.
Robert: For certain. It was a shift of issues.
Fumbani: Yeah. So the business is being run by we artists. We have seen authorities with out pumping something within the artwork business. We are affected by the help from the federal government. Yeah, it’s one thing else. Even the id of the nation is falling aside as a result of the artwork business will not be being supported. Way again, that’s why the whites got here in to pump in more cash. The west donors pumps in more cash, they usually’ll let you know, you’re going to do Macbeth.
Robert: Macbeth. We do our story, we do The Tempest.
Fumbani: Yes, you’re going to do—
Robert: We do Animal Farm.
Fumbani: Okay, so we need to do it African approach. Yes, you’re going to Romeo and Juliet in Africa. But Romeo and Juliet, that tradition, side of Western was nonetheless there.
Robert: Oh, it’s nonetheless right here.
Fumbani: Yeah.
Robert: You see, in fact, now we have their cash. The factor is, the factor about historical past is it’s obtained a really strict agenda. If we received’t watch out, we’ll be remembered as a rustic the place all people arrived too late.
Fumbani: Yeah.
Robert: The artwork, we can not inform our people tales. We can not sit round proudly across the fireplace and one man inform us a narrative like Nthano. Those had been superb methods to inform our tales. Our grandfather did, our nice grandparents did them. They survived via, and that’s how they saved the tradition going, and provides it to the opposite technology. We are shedding it as a result of we appear like individuals who doesn’t have tales to inform.
Fumbani: Tell. Yeah.
Robert: I’m motivated by Mbona. He’s dancing. How was he dancing to chop via the rains, and the rains will even come? I imply, if these are fictitious tales, then why individuals nonetheless imagine them?
Fumbani: Yeah. On high of that, we’re not documenting these tales.
Robert: Yes.
Fumbani: Even in books.
Robert: Yes.
Fumbani: I bear in mind after I was younger, I by no means examine Sikusinja Ndi Gwenembe however you possibly can see my brother Sikusinja Sikusinja, Gwenembe, singing aloud. What is going on? It was up till after I was in first 12 months, and also you say, we’re learning Sikusinja Ndi Gwenembe, ah Sikusinja ndi Gwenembe is a e book? Yes. It’s additionally a fiction story. I simply thought it was one thing else.
Robert: Yes.
Fumbani: Right? You see how these tales had been inspiring us, and that technology is you and me? But what about—
Robert: The different ones which are coming.
Fumbani: —the opposite ones which are coming?
Robert: We’re getting out of this, and we need to go together with the previous tales.
Fumbani: Yeah. The factor from there may be perhaps as you publish, you stated earlier, you stated… Gertrude and Du used to go to secondary college incessantly.
Robert: Yes.
Fumbani: With reveals.
Robert: No, they had been.
Fumbani: With reveals. So after some a number of years, these college students who’ve that tradition of watching performances, then after two, three years you discover… bought out that reveals by Gertrude, bought out that present by Du Chisiza.
Robert: Because they know the way from these colleges…
Fumbani: Yeah. Because the tradition was there.
Robert: Yes.
Fumbani: The tradition of revamping the tales inside, how manufacturing of Du Chisiza by then, the Tumbuka accent the way it flows, the way it all… So these issues I feel we have to make the most of, it doesn’t matter what. We can return.
Robert: We undoubtedly need to reset. For certain.
Fumbani: Yeah. We can return. So for you as effectively, you do modern dance, which is it encourage lots of college students as a result of it’s new for them to do this. But how do you incorporate conventional dance?
Robert: You must also see my choreographies. You will see each modern dance, but it surely’s Afro modern. Within the Afro modern, what occurs is all of… I have a look at let’s say Chitaguliro from Ghana, I convey it in, and I see the taguliro motion is obtained some Manganje rhythm. Then I put Manganje into my choreographies. So I studied lots of our conventional dance and see how I can put it into at this time’s motion. So if one, two, three is Martha Graham method, initially from America or some place else, then 5, six, seven is certainly Beni or Malipenga someplace. Because they’ve seen Malipenga for over years and it’s the identical. So if I see Malipenga and shut my eyes, and I’m nonetheless going to the rhythm and I’ll match the dancers on area.
So there isn’t a longer that distinctive second in there, however you have to convey that again. So that’s the place you’ve gotten a Malipenga man doing… as from nowhere you see a again flip, and also you’re like, wow, and it nonetheless continues. So you attempt to be sure that the viewers now sees one thing new in our personal custom. I’m not… I’m not attempting to vary it.
Fumbani: No, you’re not altering it.
Robert: No, I’m not altering something as a result of I’ve a child who won’t watch it, but when they see a again flip, one thing that they see on telly, after which he’s like, “Oh, that dancer is cool.” Then, that dance is cool for him.
Fumbani: Yes.
Robert: So it’s these form of issues. So I have a look at our custom, and see the again stomach of the music and in addition the dance, the essential, how I can combine it with some other combine, combine or a dance that I’ve learnt or one thing western.
Fumbani: Yeah. You’re not altering the dance as a result of even from the start they introduce perhaps one, two steps, three steps, 4 steps. Then, as time goes, there’s 5 steps.
Robert: Yeah.
Fumbani: New steps. Aah, then that is one other dance. Let’s create this. Another one. So it evolves like that. So by creating some modern parts, some motion with it, is the way you perceive how tradition adjustments, the way it evolves, the way it flows. Right? So you’re not altering it as a result of you’re a Malawian, you might be a part of it. You are a part of the custom.
Robert: I used to be very sadly the opposite instances TV employed me to be a part of the judges at Kajive, they gave them a activity to do a conventional dance. One conventional dance they may discover. So I feel they named it Beni or Manganje, proper? You may see how they didn’t go into analysis.
Fumbani: Research.
Robert: How they didn’t put a lot effort on any. How they cheated via to carry out.
Fumbani: They did not interaction the efficiency.
Robert: Yes.
Fumbani: Yeah.
Robert: For me, that’s a tragic second as a result of you possibly can have a greater choreography, but when I see any associated dance motion from elsewhere, then you aren’t considering since you’re copying. Even when you reduce and paste it in your individual choreography, I must see what you are able to do as a result of it doesn’t finish out from simply dancing. It doesn’t finish out simply from performing. You must evolve, you have to begin directing, you have to begin writing. You want to begin composing your individual choreography. So for me, I got here up with lots of approach like taking a look at footage, and make a dance from an image. Looking at individuals transferring across the road, make a dance from there. Listening to noise, see how the rhythm bounces.
There’s lots of issues that encourage. Your troublesome mother, your damaged dad, your issues on the house. Your youthful sisters, the way in which they cry, the way in which they transfer, all people’s dancing. If that make the way in which Malawians transfer with their drawback is a special approach, the way in which the Zimbabweans dance with their drawback. So that’s why the dancer from Zimbabwe is totally different from the Malawian dancer standpoint.
Fumbani: I feel the presentation itself additionally spark the remedy of the society.
Robert: Yes.
Fumbani: So, since you mirror the society, and also you current it to the viewers—
Robert: Exactly.
Fumbani: —then individuals say, okay, let me go and watch the efficiency once more. My thoughts may very well be refreshed and stuff, say, “Oh, I’m feeling it. All right.” Robert?
Robert: Yes. Fumbani!
Fumbani: Yeah. It was good having you over the dialog. Probably we may even have one other episode sooner or later—
Robert: I’ll like to.
Fumbani: —to debate however proceed doing an ideal job, being a social changer. I simply love the dialog from inclusive theatre. Maybe I’ll ask my producer to say, can now we have a particular serial on that? We can talk about extra on that.
Robert: Please do. I’d like to. Exposure is all the time good.
Fumbani: Yeah. Sure.
Robert: Let’s see how this could additionally get to assist the artists in Malawi when it comes to the channels that we’re taking.
Fumbani: Yeah.
Robert: Let’s not undergo the straightforward methods. The robust methods, all people’s not going there, however when you go there 5, 4 instances and also you fail… You know what they are saying?
Fumbani: Yeah.
Robert: Fall seven instances and get up eight instances.
Fumbani: So if you wish to know extra about Robert Magasa, you’ll discover the outline down there, then there’s a hyperlink, you possibly can remark within the field, then work together. Yeah. So thanks very a lot. See you subsequent time.
Robert: Thank you a lot.
Fumbani: Yeah. Thank you a lot for having a chill with us. This has been one other episode of Critical Stages in Malawian Contemporary Theatre. I used to be your host, Fumbani Innot Phiri Jr. If you’re trying ahead to attach with me, you possibly can electronic mail me at fumbaniphiri@gmail.com.
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