Bíborka: Welcome to PUHA podcast, which stands for Performative Unity within the Hungarian Arts, produced for HowlRound Theatre Commons, a free and open platform for theatremakers worldwide. We’re your hosts, Zsofi and Biborka.
Here we go. So, welcome to the seventh episode of PUHA. The subject at present is autobiography. Do you wish to say your identify and your career—what you think about your self—and anything you wish to share? Just as an introduction spherical. Do you wish to go this fashion?
Judit Tarr: Okay. My identify is Judit Tarr. I’m an actress. I’m a member of a little bit firm known as E-Mancik Színházi Manufaktúra the…
Bíborka: Manufacture.
Judit: Yeah. Yeah, that’s it.
Zsófi: Okay.
László Göndör: Hi, my identify is Laszlo Gondor. I’m a performer and director, little bit, and I don’t have my very own firm, however I’ve my very own individuals who I wish to work with. But I’m at all times open to discovering new folks in Hungary, particularly Budapest. But I additionally work internationally typically with different corporations. So I’m a theatrical creator; theatremaker.
Panni Néder: I’m Panni Neder and I’m residing in Berlin for eleven years. Basically, I’m a stage director however writer for my items or initiatives and performer as effectively. And I’m doing autobiographical theatre for eight years.
Kristóf Kelemen: My identify is Kristof Kelemen. I’m a playwright, dramaturg, and theatre director and a little bit bit performer, additionally, I can say. And I’m working in an unbiased and likewise within the state theatre subject as a dramaturg and director.
Zsófi: Thank you. Cool. So, we like to start out the dialog with this one little harmless query, which is: What is efficiency or efficiency artwork to you?
Bíborka: Try to reply it in a single transient sentence. We realize it’s difficult, however that’s a part of the deal.
Zsófi: It may be only one phrase.
Panni: Okay. To me, efficiency, it may be two issues: one is to attain one thing, to do a objective in a efficiency, or it may be a present, just like the performance-performance.
László: What first got here to my thoughts—it was good to chill out—one thing I used to be considering quite a lot of was one thing like being playful with a selected objective.
Bíborka: Interesting.
Kristóf: Maybe it’s fascinating that in Hungarian language efficiency is one of these artwork items like what made Marina Abramovic or these sort of folks. But within the English, it has what solely talked about that there are two completely different meanings or ranges of this phrase. So I believe in Hungarian, in case you are seeing “performance,” everyone who is aware of the artwork subject a little bit, they’re fascinated with this experimental kind of theatremaking.
Panni: But what Marina Abramovic did, I imply she at all times needed to objective to attain, and I believe that’s why it was efficiency.
László: But it needs to be known as efficiency artwork. That’s the official identify of that and efficiency is the overall time period for all the things that’s theatrical or performative.
Judit: For me, it’s making reference to the viewers and that’s true if we’re speaking about performing artwork and performances as effectively, I believe.
Zsófi: For me that’s sort of what I might say now. The reference to the viewers and the neighborhood.
Judit: Yeah.
Zsófi: You wish to reply? You haven’t answered it for some time.
Bíborka: Yeah, at all times. So every time we report this, we additionally reply it, however we by no means gave the 2 similar solutions in an episode. So at present for me, efficiency is, I might, say being conscious of what you do and the way you do it.
Panni: And problem for me as effectively.
Bíborka: So, autobiography, we guess it’s participating with part of your life in a technique or one other utilizing some performativity or theatricality. So what a part of your life have you ever engaged with on this method and will you say some related initiatives or items that you’ve got had or perhaps you’re at present engaged on?
Panni: Okay. So I’ve had many, and I believe the primary necessary was the German title is Aschmutter and Cinderella in German is Aschenputtel and mutter is mom. And it was a challenge based mostly on my—not solely based mostly on my mom’s story, however I wished to know why did my mom turn out to be such an individual as she did. And then I concerned six different—some actors and just a few individuals who favored theatre and that sort of arts and we have been researching their tales as effectively collectively. So it was a motherhood challenge. But again then I didn’t notice it was autobiographical, I simply wished to do this. So I believe it got here later or years later that I met this phrase, “autobiography.”
And then for me, my most necessary present with a protracted title is When Was the Last Time You Had Sex on Top of a Mountain. And it’s 100% autobiographical—I’m onstage as effectively, and I wrote it in fourteen completely different languages with the serving to palms of Google Translate. And it’s about all the things, actually: minorities; politics in Eastern and Western Europe; difficulties with a overseas language as a result of I simply began it after I moved to Germany and began to review there. So it was about how did I really feel misplaced in a brand new nation, not solely due to the language however due to the tradition as effectively. And it’s about very, very private fears as effectively. So world fears and really private sexual fears or household patterns or no matter. And it’s 100% autobiographical, and it’s extra I wouldn’t record something. And my final premiere, it was in November in Berlin, and it was about love and relationships and relationship patterns and intimacy, and it was my story as effectively.
So it’s additionally very self-ironic as a result of… so it was sort of enjoyable scenario as a result of I didn’t be taught theatre in class like everyone else right here within the room, so I didn’t know do it correctly. But on the similar time, I might do it anyhow I wished to do as a result of I had no masters and academics.
Kristóf: I believe I start to work on completely different documentary theatre items, and this was the gate of the autobiographical theatre for me and one in every of—sure, my first efficiency in Budapest, what I directed. was a efficiency with Judit additionally, so she was on the stage. The title was Why You are Reading this Title, We are Talking About You. And this efficiency based mostly on an actor examination in 1970 on the University of Theatre and Film Arts in Budapest. And this was a scandalous examination and I made interviews about this occasion and we thought that we, with the actors within the efficiency, that we wished to talk about our current tales and our connections to this occasion previously. And the actors inform completely different tales concerning the actor coaching on the college, relationships with academics, and likewise the scenario of enter within the theatre subject as an expert actor or actress. And sure, this was for me a vital efficiency and perhaps you can inform a little bit about it since you was additionally a part of it.
Judit: Yeah, so we labored along with Kristof and the opposite ones and the actresses, like actors. And we have been working—we had so many conversations collectively and a lot recollections came visiting which we mentioned. And lastly we select some, we’ve been spoken onstage and it was actually free. It was so liberating for us and for the viewers as effectively as a result of if I converse by coronary heart, it may be so refreshing for the others as effectively.
Kristóf: Yes. I believe one of many details was that we talked about names and we inform tales within the publicity, inform tales, these not a part of the publicity earlier than or not sometimes half in Hungary and it’s good primarily concerning the tradition of dialogue in Hungary. I believe we have now a convention from the socialism how we’re fascinated with, for instance, hierarchy and likewise about dialogues between completely different folks within the skilled subject. And we attempt to a little bit, I believe, provoke these questions, how we’re fascinated with these tales, and what might be part of the publicity.
Judit: And that’s why it was so exhausting for the primary time to inform these tales in entrance of the viewers as a result of since then I had some performances which was autobiographical however not this fashion that I used to be telling tales with names and individuals who can… [speaking in Hungarian]?
Bíborka: (translating) Be acknowledged and affect.
Judit: Yeah, affect my work.
Bíborka: Your profession.
Judit: My profession. But that’s why it was so refreshing I believe and for the viewers as effectively, to be a part of it. to see.
Bíborka: And what sort of work do you do now since this efficiency that you just took half?
Judit: With my little firm?
Bíborka: Yeah, your organization.
Judit: We have two performances. We wrote about our tales, our recollections, our traumas. For the primary one is Szomjas Férfiak Sört Isznak Helyettem so I can translate it like “thirsty man drinking beer instead of me,” which is about our sexual and love life. We introduced it actually actually, and it incorporates many humor as effectively. It is so outspoken and the following one is Válogatáskazi – Szomjas Fiúk Tolják a Kakaót. I can translate like, “sorted playlist, thirsty boys push chocolate milk,” and it’s about our childhood and teenage. And then it’s the same method and we’re telling tales about our childhood and the teenage, little sense, and songs we wrote.
Bíborka: And who’s the we?
Judit: We, yeah. So, “we” is the 4 actresses, and so we processing our life.
László: Basically. I’m newcomer and likewise late comer within the subject of theatre in Hungary. That gave me quite a lot of benefits and drawbacks. So to talk to this, my first greater present—truly that is the third I directed—however that is the primary autobiographical and I don’t know if the following one will likely be autobiographical or not. But let me let you know about this present, after which I proceed about what I realized about it and what my model seems to be like in the intervening time.
So this present is about my grandma and I and it’s extra about me, truly as I acquired to understand, than my grandma. So my intention was to create a present about my grandma and our relationship, nevertheless it’s revealed that it’s actually my private approach to digest this relationship and to face this relationship so my perspective is the principle perspective of the function. And I’m on the stage so I believe it’s an autobiographical play as a result of… so, I moved to my grandma for a month in 2020. So it was a private experiment that I face our relationship, and my authentic objective was to place this relationship to a subsequent degree earlier than she dies. Because she was already ninety-seven years previous, and I had nightmares, and I used to be actually anxious about her passing. And I wished to save lots of loads from her but in addition to enhance this relationship with what’s an important relationship in my life earlier than she died. And in order that was an experiment and a vital private one, so I did it. And it was profitable in a method. I wished to achieve success.
But after I went there, I already knew that I wish to create a present from this story. So, it was very meta, so it wasn’t only a separate experiment, however the experiment already included that it’s going to be a present on the level, however we don’t know what the present will likely be. But we’re already engaged on one thing. So it was sort of fascinating and fairly tough at that second. So we needed to face and take care of quite a lot of stuff and never simply theatrical but in addition very lot of non-public, emotional difficulties. And in order that’s how this present was created, and the present itself is extra about my complete battle to take care of all these questions and stresses and this type of love. So, it’s additionally private, additionally reflective on theatre and the best way I make theatre.
So it’s additionally very self-ironic as a result of… so it was sort of enjoyable scenario as a result of I didn’t be taught theatre in class like everyone else right here within the room, so I didn’t know do it correctly. But on the similar time, I might do it anyhow I wished to do as a result of I had no masters and academics. So I simply learn books and, okay, I went to actually good workshops, and I studied within the States for some time performing. But I felt it’s a really free experiment or subject for me to—and likewise the stress is even increased and greater whenever you don’t have any fundamentals in it. So the present itself displays on it as effectively. So I’ve no instruments, I’m not expert sufficient and stuff, however I’m on the stage and I wish to do one thing good and necessary. And the trick was initially that perhaps the nice factor could be I make one thing good, on the similar time I do nothing actually classically good. So I can’t sing superbly, I don’t know converse completely and these classical… so it’s additionally like an assault on these basic values of what we predict theatre needs to be and the way the basic qualities needs to be. And with out these, we can’t do good theatre.
And I really feel I managed to do a very good present with out all these expertise. And I believe that’s an fascinating factor for the longer term, how we are able to create fascinating issues in theatre. And that’s why I’m actually keen on autobiographical and experimental theatre, in a method, how I perceive. Because we are able to deliver quite a lot of actuality and life and really fascinating concepts on the stage and perhaps it’s extra fascinating than singing superbly or talking completely and I believe that’s the large query of this complete subject for me. Maybe I don’t say these are necessary values and may be very, very helpful and typically I want I might converse a lot nicer—I don’t. But on the similar time, perhaps this focus is extra necessary these days in theatre and perhaps younger individuals are extra keen on that.
So that’s why I’m actually keen on documentary and autobiographical theatre as effectively. I believe… so this piece was autobiographical, however what I’ve realized from it’s that and the way I wish to work. So I began to be taught a working technique. If I do a subsequent present, perhaps may be very completely different, but when I wish to present one thing like this, then I actually began to enhance this technique. So first I name myself a researcher and, on this sense, perhaps it turns into autobiographical, perhaps not. If the researcher itself later a part of is a part of the present as a result of the researcher’s perspective is necessary, then it may be autobiographical. If the researcher stays exterior of this private storytelling context, then it’s perhaps simply documentary. I believe that’s my differentiation. So on this case, I used to be a researcher and it was my story and it may be completely different subsequent time, however perhaps I make a analysis first.
For the analysis part is that I’m the researcher, and I intrude with the truth one way or the other. So it’s not simply I’m observing actuality, however I do one thing with actuality. So, I transfer to my grandma. And if I do a subsequent present, I wish to do one thing like that. So I wish to do… prefer it needs to be a giant factor, a giant challenge in interplay with different folks interfering with the truth. So, I wish to do one thing, not simply observing however creating these new realities, new conditions. And I wish to make a present of this course of, so the way it occurred. But perhaps I received’t be onstage, so it perhaps received’t be autobiographical. Maybe I used to be solely the researcher or the creator of this challenge.
So that’s my technique. So in my case, there’s an necessary step that I… not simply gathering paperwork or observing actuality, however I additionally wish to change actuality first. And then I deliver it to theatre, and in theatre, hopefully, that sort of factor will change what we see there or what we current. It’s not simply one thing from the previous, however it might probably change the viewers actuality once more. So it’s like a two phases actuality change. That’s what I’m actually now as I’m considering of… like I wish to do one thing like this sooner or later.
Judit: I believe I wish to inform as soon as extra that it’s so necessary to make use of humor and replicate on your self. And I want to inform a little bit story. I used to have very painful interval, and I introduced sin of my first interval, use a lot humor. It is [really funny] and I acknowledge that my interval will not be painful anymore, however I didn’t respect this; it simply occurred. So it may be so useful in your life. So you requested what results on our private life, it may be.
Zsófi: Yeah, I imply now I’m relationship a man who’s not rejecting me.
László: I simply had this dialog just a few days in the past in a workshop. So they requested me how lengthy will I play this present, and this is essential query as a result of—on this subject in fact—however now final time, additionally final week, in Bánkitó Festival, I performed this present. And I felt like I overcome a few of my difficulties with my idealizing folks a lot as I did, and that was due to this present for certain. That’s why I improved a lot in that subject. And I simply modified in so many ranges, and my relationships additionally modified. So I used to be standing there onstage performing this play, and I heard myself within the recordings, and I used to be making that function. I used to be truly a yr in the past, and I felt that it’s slowly changing into a job that I play myself one yr in the past. And this was so humorous, it’s so fascinating. How lengthy do you settle for and tolerate—or do you tolerate it—a job that you just play your earlier self?
Judit: That’s why I at all times change textual content.
Yes, however I believe there’s additionally a rule that in case you are telling along with your identify onstage one thing, the viewers watch that as a real story. So I believe it’s an fascinating query, that: How might you play with this function? How might you rewrite this function?
László: Okay. But I respect that materials a lot as a result of it’s a vital reminiscence of that age. But perhaps it’s a little bit bit… the fascinating half is that it turns into a little bit bit pretend in a way as a result of that man who’s standing onstage is taking part in his earlier self. So it’s not true that he’s, or perhaps it’s not an issue for you. But I used to be considering as a developer.
Judit: Can you think about that any individual else would play this present?
Panni: You can select.
László: That’s an excellent query as a result of perhaps, two years later, I will likely be so completely different than even one other individual might play perhaps even higher, in order that’s a very good query.
Kristóf: Yes. And I believe that was what I attempted to elucidate earlier than: that there will likely be fictitious persona on the stage. You can inform your personal tales, nevertheless it’s not an actual scenario that I’m telling my tales in entrance of 100 or 200 folks. So it’s extra about this example, that how might you be along with the viewers and the way do you wish to be in entrance of this many individuals? And I believe it’s additionally necessary that what sort of… kisugárzás?
Bíborka: (translating) Radiance? Radiation? Vibe? Vibe, yeah.
Kristóf: Yes. What sort of vibe do you might have onstage? Because I believe there are individuals who couldn’t inform their tales, not as a result of they don’t seem to be professionals. The motive why they couldn’t is that they don’t like this example and it’s not good to look at from the viewers and it’s not… the scenario makes not free these folks. And I believe it’s essential since you might have errors, however I believe it’s best to one way or the other take pleasure in your self on the stage
László: For certain.
Panni: Yeah, in fact.
László: For certain.
Panni: Yeah, however I believe it relies on a type—you recognize, what you’re performing and since you’re not the identical individual, and many others. But as I discussed, I at all times rewrote the textual content and that stored it alive, the place I can think about in your case that perhaps autobiographical dance or bodily theatre, that you’re nonetheless the identical individual and perhaps you’ll carry out your ache on one other degree due to course it’s adjustments however you aren’t your previous self, proper? Or, I don’t know.
Bíborka: I additionally began fascinated with your query—whether or not I can think about one other dancer or one other individual doing this efficiency and I don’t know. Like, I actually don’t know. In the identical method then I believe it could turn out to be a choreography with very intense moments however not my story anymore—
Zsófi: And not the developments.
Bíborka: Not the developments. It could be fascinating to look at, however I believe this connection that I discussed, it could be nonetheless in all probability good to look at. But I don’t assume that sharing the reference to the viewers, like that complete factor, could be there in the identical method, I don’t know.
Zsófi: And it could be performing like it could be not… I don’t know, performing, however performing in each case, I believe. So it’s only a completely different factor.
Bíborka: Completely.
Kristóf: Yes, however I believe there’s additionally a rule that in case you are telling along with your identify onstage one thing, the viewers watch that as a real story. So I believe it’s an fascinating query, that: How might you play with this function? How might you rewrite this function? And I believe there are many artists who’re taking part in this function. There is a, I don’t know… a lady who inform a narrative of a person on the stage as, “I am this man.” And I believe it might use or it might make an fascinating play on the stage. For instance, if Judit inform or play your present, I believe it begins to talk about the theatricality and extra like meta. It makes extra meta context of the entire present, and the query is how might, for instance, Judit inform your story in an genuine method additionally or how we might think about that you just did these.
Panni: Yeah, however then it’s not autobiographical.
Kristóf: Yes, it’s not autobiographical, nevertheless it’s extra like… it might be, for instance, verbatim theatre, nevertheless it’s extra like an experimental theatre.
Panni: I believe it’s fascinating that it’s not autobiographical anymore. And about this guidelines, I don’t know if there’s any rule like this however the viewers, I imply at my reveals in Berlin, typically they don’t consider it’s autobiographical as a result of typically it’s so exhausting that no, no, no, it couldn’t have occurred, typically. For occasion, my final present, I imply one actor and one actress have been onstage, nevertheless it was explicitly my story, and it was informed firstly of on the efficiency with my identify and no matter, however on the finish of the present, many individuals thought that it was the story of that two folks onstage and that they’re in love or no matter. Although, we informed that, “No, it’s not their story. It’s the story of the director.” So I believe the viewers would consider what they need, and I believe there is no such thing as a rule, even with names or no matter.
Judit: I believe the audiences create their very own story—
Panni: Absolutely.
Judit: —of any efficiency, and it relies upon.
Panni: So perhaps they assume that you’re grandma. It’s the grandma of Judit.
Judit: Yeah. And I can consider it as a result of I’m actress and if I do any function however introduced anyone—as an alternative of Shakespeare or any individual—I consider I would like to know that individual. And if I do it, I am going onstage each night that in that second I believe what she’s taking, the highway.
Panni: And I believe an enormous distinction as effectively, as a result of if Judit would do your present, in fact it could be performing and perhaps you can do this in an ideal method. But in any case, it could be performing. But I believe in autobiographical reveals, you don’t need to work explicitly with actors or professionally educated folks, and that may be dynamite, actually. Dynamite, that I might see some folks onstage who can’t converse or sing or no matter completely. But I can simply see and there are that, “Whoa, it’s your story,” about minorities or no matter. I believe it’s a lot stronger if an expert educated actor or actress would sit there and simply faux that, I don’t know, she’s a Roma girl from a small village—in fact, I wouldn’t consider that. So I believe that’s necessary too, that you just don’t need to work with professionals.
Zsófi: There’s a distinction whenever you additionally carry out in your autobiographical reveals after which your final piece, you didn’t carry out in it and two folks did it. How is it completely different? I don’t know, simply the method when now you weren’t in it.
Panni: Yeah, I believe as a result of… I don’t know if it’s right that I developed my technique one way or the other and within the writing course of, I’m a director as effectively, so I’m simply not writing a textual content however actually considering as a director and placing video materials and music. So every half simply develops itself. And so I did it and When Was the Last Time, blah, blah blah, and it wasn’t deliberate then I might be a part of the present. So I simply wrote the textual content, the primary model for 3 actresses and it was primarily solely my textual content, nevertheless it was the primary model.
But one of many actresses simply jumped out two days earlier than. It was not like an actual premiere as a result of it was a stage studying and he or she simply jumped out and we have been simply sitting there: “What the fuck is going on? We have to read it in two days.” And then I simply informed them, “Okay, I wrote the text. I mean, it’s about me mostly, I know the languages, so I can do that.” So it was not the plan, it was an accident. And then I noticed that okay, I can do it effectively as a result of it’s not performing factor.
Judit: But the others have been performing as a result of it was your textual content, your story, your life—
Panni: Yeah, however then in a while, they’re telling however they’re not solely storytelling however very choral components and they’re political components. So now that it simply occurred to me, I believe they’re completely different. And then as a result of it was simply the quick factor firstly, after which I made interviews with them. And they’re telling their very own tales as effectively the place it could simply change typically components, however they’ve autobiographical components as effectively. But the present itself displays of the present making and of a director who’s scared to direct. So it was my story, and I believe it was concrete that they’re typically, not taking part in me however performing me, and typically themselves, nevertheless it was clear.
Bíborka: So I believe we’re coming to an finish quickly. Do you might have any final remarks that you just wish to add?
Panni: I simply wish to let you know as a result of I noticed all your reveals—not yours. Yes. But I’ve very recent recollections of those reveals as a result of yours—when was it?
Kristóf: In 2016.
Panni: Yeah, so six years in the past. But it’s very recent actually in my mind as a result of I mentioned, “Whoa, so brave.” Really, you had a lot braveness.
László: Which one?
Panni: I imply all of them. It’s While You are Reading and that’s why these phrases are so necessary to me and I’m having recent recollections solely it was six years in the past. But yours I believe as effectively, the primary one. But yeah, I felt this tremendous sturdy connection and the way courageous folks you’re that you’re telling your private tales or performing or dancing or singing.
Zsófi: I additionally wish to relate to what Panni mentioned however you mentioned that it’s very inspiring to listen to all of this and actually everyone seems to be so courageous, and it simply retains up this type of trustworthy and superb theatre work. And I actually wish to see your efficiency, and yours, that I haven’t seen earlier than.
Bíborka: Me too.
Zsófi: Even if it’s autobiographical or not autobiographical or no matter it’s. If it’s like a fish and… I don’t know what, simply stick with it. Let’s do it.
Bíborka: Let’s do it.
Zsófi: This has been one other episode of the PUHA podcast. We are your hosts, Zsófi and Bíborka. This podcast is produced as a contribution to HowlRound Theatre Commons. You can discover extra episodes of the collection and different HowlRound podcasts in our feed on iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you discover your podcasts. Be certain to look HowlRound Theatre Commons podcasts and subscribe to obtain new episodes. If you like this podcast, put up a score, and write a evaluation on these platforms. This helps different folks discover us.
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